I just wanted to say thanks to the whole NYARA staff and volunteers for putting on such a great event. Most people dont know the planning and work that goes into running an event like this, and we fully appreciate it. Given the restrictions placed upon the organization in regards to not be able to use the main trail for the race for mt.biking I thought the course that was made was fantastic, and also in terms of being conscious of leaving no trace by not destroying the local trails by biking on them after the heavy snows and rains that left them quite soft-although they were in fairly good shape just prior to the event noone could have guessed that when just 3 days prior they were literally a river. There were plenty of different navigational choices thru the event, which made it interesting and fun, although a few of us were running neck and neck thru large portions of the course it was constantly bouncing back and forth of who was ahead by a minute! or 30 seconds due to a nav choice-which kept us on our toes and trying to make smart decisions. ATP's choice on the paddle section was a great one, something that most all the experienced teams over looked, hats off for that bright move! The zipline thing was a bit screwed up and we lost ALOT of time there as the ropes werent ready by the time we arrived, but it always seems in every event across the globe that there is always a backlog at the ropes section.

We would just like to say thanks so much for all your hard work and efforts!! And thanks for some great prizes as well.

Jodi Zwicky, Team Zwicky Specialty Products

congrats to ATP for there performance, however, they should have known not to except the new bike, and their finish could of been a lot worse had they went on with the broken one. the 1 hour penalty was very lenient and ATP sould feel very lucky for this. i support the final decision of NYARA, but do not think this should be allowed in the future.

Anon

Big thank you to Matt, Chris, Rich, all the Vols and anybody else I may be overlooking. You did a great job of upping the challenge at S&P this year.

You guys did a great job of thinking on your feet. Penalties, course mods etc... the adventure isn't just for us on race day.

Thanks for taking the bike off-trail. It really was the right thing to do. I spent the prior couple weeks talking people out of riding the extremely wet trails near me. It would have felt hypocritical to then go out and trash somebody else's main ride.

Awesome race schwag for all, great prizes for the lucky and skilled. Thanks for putting in the work to arrange it all.

See you again,

Jonathan Neely, Team Agilitas

So that the rest of us in the NYARA community could better understand all of the factual circumstances surrounding the ATP controversy, perhaps ATP can clarify:

1. Who is Daniel des Rosier; what relationship - either personal, financial/sponsorship or otherwise does he have with Team ATP or any of the members of Team ATP?



2. At what point did Daniel get involved in the situation, and how did he come to be involved?



3. What tools did Daniel use to affect his repairs on the chain? His own - or those from ATP's mandatory equipment?
   While Daniel worked on the chain, where was Team ATP? Were they in a holding pattern pending his repair efforts or were they off on the course? If off on the course, were they in full compliance with the race rules regarding the carrying of all mandatory equipment.



4. Where did the replacement bike come from? Was it a bike that was put out of commission by another team's inability to finish the race, or was it a spare bike from ATP's support system? If the former: who approached that other team? If Daniel made the approach and the arrangements - where was Team ATP at that time? How long did it take Daniel to make those arrangements?

While it is understandable that ATP may have had a right to rely on the decision made on the ground by the particular race manager (thereby rendering the above questions obsolete), it might be helpful to the rest of the NYARA community to get a fuller understanding of the issues here so that we might better understand the decision of race management.

Thank you.

Anon

We, Team ATP, are requesting re-evaluation of the scenario, and removal of the time penalty assessed following the event.

We would like to be contacted about this issue.

Thank You,

Scott Pleban

Tuesday 15 April 03

Our team learned via the NYARA website last nite that a significant penalty affecting our race results from Sundays Saddle and Paddle had been assessed.

We feel it necessary to respond in the immediate present. Team ATP always has, did, and will, race with the utmost dignity and respect to our fellow competitors and the rules governing the sport.

Team ATP was not granted any such mutual respect. When an issue arose regarding a bicycle breakdown in this race, all of the facts were not obtained. In fact, ATP was never even asked what had transpired. While we respect the fact that considerable on-the-spot stresses can, and do, occur for the race management team on raceday, it is clear to me that in this case there were communications breakdowns during the event for which ATP is now paying the price. I have communicated with three of the NYARA race officials over the last 24 hours, none of which had a clear understanding of what had occurred. Instead, an extra penalty was assessed on the assumption that ATP had simply received aid in the form of an extra bike.

The following paragraphs are written to clarify the facts about the events as they transpired.

• On the way to TA1 my chain broke multiple times. We stopped no less than three times to repair it. I had the chain literally in my hand as we pulled into the TA.
  
  
• Planning on fixing the chain again later, we transitioned to the foot section. Daniel des Rosier of Jay Challenge offered his assistance in fixing the chain while ATP would be out on the foot section. Recognizing that this was an unsupported race, I stopped him short, saying that this could not be done. I asked for no assistance here in any way, shape, or form. Daniel proceeded to ask the race management staff at the TA if he could help by repairing the chain, or by finding a new bike (without any suggestion from ATP). Race management responded with a sentence similar to "it is okay, but I will have to allow all teams the same courtesy". Other teams were in the transition at the same time and can verify these facts.
  
  
• We hustled out of transition in an effort to make up lost time.
  
  
• We returned to the bikes at TA3 following the paddle section. We were informed by a friend of our third teammate that 1) Daniel had tried to fix the chain, but could not 2) Daniel had found a replacement bicycle for us to use 3) ATP would receive a 15 minute time penalty, to be served on the spot before proceeding further. Race Management approached us, and verified that he had changed his earlier ruling. He confirmed that a 15 minute penalty would be assessed. He acknowledged that while he had previously granted the O.K. to Daniel, other teams had complained about this, and he therefore felt it necessary to make the change. While not happy about having to sit, especially since earlier the Race Management had already made a "judgment", we accepted our fate and hoped no one else would land on the beach.
  
  
• ATP waited in transition for 15 minutes, headed out with one new bike, and proceeded to the finish.

We feel it is important to establish the fact that the way we proceeded to the finish was completely affected by the rulings in TA1 and TA3. ATP went along with the rulings, and would have done so even if not in our favor. We biked to the finish line.....a judgment had been made, we paid a penalty, and the issue was closed. If there had been any question about an additional penalty being assessed, we would have pushed, towed, coasted, and scootered all the way to the finish line instead, no questions asked.

We understand the ruling was probably not a good one, but it was made, and ATP had to plan the rest of their race based on that decision. We feel we were given the "good to go", and then penalized later for doing just that. We don't feel it is appropriate to change the ruling multiple times, and we don't feel it was appropriate to assess extra penalties without getting a single member of ATP's side of the issue.

I, and we, welcome your comments to this group address, on-line to us individually, or off-line altogether.

Scott Pleban
Michelle Barnes
Scott Cole

I definitely enjoyed the race. I'm just a member of one of the alternate finish teams. There are things that can be improved on but the level of planning and support is so appreciated. These people volunteer?? I'm amazed at how much these people give and plan as volunteers.

I'm impressed even if my team did not do as well as others. I think everyone needs to remember that all the volunteers and staff were providing a service to the rest of us.

That being said. I would have liked to see more roaming staff on the roads. Better yet, no roads. I thought the roads with no shoulder were a bit dangerous. Everyone would be kicking themselves if something had gone wrong.

Set up cut off times ahead of time. I think it will make things easier for the racers and more clear for the volunteers of points. Make the contigency plan before the race and save yourself the headaches for all the other stuff during the race.

I think NYARA is great. There are always things that can be done a little better. I think the amount of things that were done top notch show the effort you all put in.

Sean Walsh, Team We're not lost - we like going in circles

Matt, Chris, Rich, everyone else at NYARA:

thank you so much for putting your hearts and souls into this great race. it will be added to my list of mandatory races from here on.

I know that it is next to impossible to take every last detail into account, especially when there are much bigger details to take care of first, so i will just mention a few points that i thought would be constructive:

• the race is listed as a 14 hour duration both on the site and in the new NYARA brochure, so let's make bike lights mandatory for next year's race. this would allow racers to finish without being pulled.
• posting or stating of cutoff times for the TAs would be really helpfull for the slower teams. perhaps this is something we should have asked you at the meeting saturday night, but no one did as i recall.
• clearly posting or stating penalties incurred with certain actions such as skipping a race section or recieving outside assistance would be most helpful.

I know this last point is creating a huge mess in NYARA right now and I find that very sad and frustrating. You guys have done a supremely excellent job at running all of this on a total volunteer basis and I think perhaps many in the NYARA membership are not aware of this fact. Please please try to find a solution/compromise that will not leave NYARA hamstringed and racers hanging in the wind.

good luck with everything. let me know if there's anything I/the NYARA membership can do to help this situation.

-best,

robert, team asagph.com

Did you think the level of organization was adequate?
Adequate, but could have been better. Lack of rules printed with the CP list was a definite problem; route planning was difficult not knowing what roads were off-limits or if canoe points could be picked up on other legs. Would also have preferred to get passports punched at TA's rather than just yelling out team names.

We definitely enjoyed the race. Our team preference is for races with more nav (like the Longest Day, so the race is a little less of a "drag race". There was also more road biking than we would like. Both of these problems may not be fixable given the constraints of that particular area. The zip line, while fun, was too early in the race and created a bottleneck that probably hurt several teams (though not ours). We liked the canoe orienteering and would even appreciate a few more possible cp's, so the route selection could be even more challenging. Appreciated the lack of mandatory portages; thought the portages in the Longest Day were just too much. All in all, a fun day, but we probably would not come all the way from CT again without more challenging nav; that is the skill you really can't hone without being in a race situation.

Matt Holmes, Team MJM Productions

I just wanted to send a huge "thank you" to Chris, Matt, all of the volunteers, search and rescue folks, park rangers, and anyone else who gave their time so that the rest of us could enjoy a great Saddle and Paddle race! We realize that all of this would not be possible without a large number of people volunteering their own time to make it happen. Blue Marsh provided a great venue, and I appreciate them letting us run, bike and paddle all around it for a day!

Jim Weber, Team JAM

AS novices, we did not realize how imperative it was that we bring/have kayak paddles to stay competitive during that portion of the race. I think you should HIGHLY recommend it so neophytes don't spend 4.5 hours with "paddle envy". Also, I would've really like it if more of the biking was off-road.

Did you think the level of organization was adequate?
Yes, I thought it was great. You guys seemed pretty organized, there was a huge volunteer presence and everybody was friendly and helpful. I'd do another NYARA race again in a NY minute.

I thought it was super well-organized and challenging physically. As a triathlete and novice AR, I found that what made it physically challenging wasn't the distances or activities, but carrying all that STUFF around on my back.

I would've liked more MTB sections. I came to this sport to get OFF the roads and there was too much road biking, which is a bear with those bikes and not as fun either.

It was great to be able to sleep in the lodge to save time and money. The buffet after was a warm welcome and more than I've gotten at any TRI I've ever done. The people were friendly and helpful. All around a great experience. Except, you should probably warn people of the amount of paddling there is...we really would've bought or rented kayak paddles. It really hurt our time and team morale to see everyone getting two strokes for our one. Had we only known....but we do NOW!!! Otherwise, great fun, challenging and worth the reasonable entry fee.

Julie Lichty, Team Ironman

NYARA has done it again...Chris you and your group are amazing! Your races keep getting better and better. I have done them all and each event has been more organized and better run than the last. The course for the the S&P was well thought out and challenging. Thank you!

The one thing I would change is the addition of multiple rigs for the zip line.

Larry Curran, Team Pain Syndicate

I really like blue marsh for the race venue, this is a beautiful place. great job with the course, although i think the zip line should have been mandatory, with no option of going around and waiting. was someone actually monitoring teams waiting on the other side? and was this a last minute decision to allow this as an option to avoid teams backing up? other than alot of road biking, this was just what i thought it would be, i had a good time. thanks GUNG HO for finishing with us.

sam mummert, Team Sutliff Hummer

I thought that we had a lot of mandatory gear that was not needed, such as daisy chains and 'biners, a radio dry bag. I also felt as if the organizers were unsure of what was going on. I heard that one team was allowed support on the bike leg. Then at the traverse one person told teams that they could opt for a 30 min penalty if they didn't want to wait to do the traverse. But that person didn't tell the teams that they had to go to the other side and then wait out their 30 min, so most of the teams just took off and never did the traverse or their total penalty.

Overall I thought the race was a good learning experience for me. There were a few things that could have been different. The race was advertised as having technical mountain biking and I was sad to see that I rode about 98% of the bike on paved roads, with out berms, and heavy traffic. I also thought that there was a lack of communication between the event staff. No one really seemed to know what should be done as I noted above. I also thought that the race was supposed to be totally self supported. I did not think it was right to then offer water at the TA's when there was no chance of there being enough for everyone. You might as well have had it self supported because I still filled up in the lake for extra water. I was also unsure of how the teams who didn't make the cut-off for the canoe placed in the ratings. I vaguely heard at one of the TAs that there was a cut-off and a modified course. I thought that the course was challenging in length and navigation and it proved a good test of my skills.

Anon

Great Race! Another well organized event as usual for NYARA. Work out the details for the ropes better for the next event - it is disappointing when it is a smarter decision to skip the traverse and take the penalty than wait for over an hour to enjoy a fun ride.

Anon

Great course. A full variety of terrain, disciplines. Some check points even had route choices! Cold water crossing, zip-line and crawling through dense bush made the course a memorable experience for the races.

Vytenis Benetis, Team Zwicky Specialty Products